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File: 1626904263592.jpg (231.65 KB, 2048x1154, 1607526813253.jpg)

No. 542637

An example sentence used in some Dutch language courses and textbooks is "Ik kan mijn pen niet vinden omdat het veel te donker is", which translates into English word for word as "I can my pen not find because it far too dark is"

And people say Japanese is tarded.

No.542641

This structure here is brought about by a modal verb and a dependent clause, meanwhile in Japanese SOV is the default. Does sound like apespeak though.

No.542642

remembering this one time a particularly cunning linguist made a really detailed post about how Japanese grammar works on the j and one of the mods congratulated him for it

No.542643

grammar is hard hate it

No.542644

English is tarded. There are languages where both SVO and SOV constructs work and make sense

No.542645

>>542643
it's okay, colorless green ideas sleep furiously

No.542786

>>542645
Could this super genius man that made a super genius sentence really not have made his point without describing something as "colorless green"

No.542787

It sounds like middle school poetry

No.542789

>>542786
That's half of his point though.

No.542790

>>542789
Wow it must have taken a lot of brain power to think up calling something squarely round to demonstrate contradiction

No.542795

>>542790
"Colorless green" is just as much of a contradiction as "sleep furiously", or "ideas sleep", so I don't get why you're clinging onto that one in particular. His point
is retarded to some extent because he takes into consideration only everyday semantics to illustrate how that sentence doesn't make sense which he got roasted for by Jakobson, but he's still obviously right that grammatical correctness isn't prerequisite for a sentence being meaningful.

No.542799

>>542795
Being nonsensical doesn't preclude it from being poorly written. Someone showing off their erudite grasp of the vast English lexicon should be able to make a point without resorting to calling a color color-less

No.542801

If you're going to assert a thing which no one has ever suggested isn't true please at least do it with grace

No.542802

meow meow chomskies

No.542804

>>542799
Why would he show off his ``erudite grasp of the vast English lexicon", he's a literal linguist. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing now. You realise "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is a quote by Chomsky?

No.542806

>>542804
>linguist noun
>lin·​guist | \ ˈliŋ-gwist
>1 : a person accomplished in languages
I honestly have no idea why I would expect a linguist to be skilled with language. But a shitty sentence making a self-evident point doesn't need to be immortalized as a "quote" just because The Venerable Noam Chomsky said it

No.542876

>>542806
How is it self-evident? This a problem that has been actively discussed by linguists for ages, and personally I don't even agree with Chomsky's conclusion. And it's remembered as a quote because it's a gateway to understanding his "Syntactic Structures" overall, which no matter what you think about it was a turning point for linguistics and cognitive science in general.

No.542902

>>542876
No one with an average IQ or better has ever said that grammar is equivalent to meaning. If the sentence is so important please explain why the words "colorless green" were irreplaceable

No.542906

Been studying linguistics lately too. It's pretty darn neat! I straight up didn't know that Chomsky's whole grammar thing wasn't just something I needed to learn for that one freshman computer science course. The more you know!

No.543066

>>542902
>No one with an average IQ or better has ever said that grammar is equivalent to meaning
I'd say it actually is. Thanks to polysemia being able to be derived within any context, a meaning can be attributed to any sentence as long as it is grammatically correct. Even in Chomsky's example: colorless green = bleak green, green ideas = ecoactivism, sleep = to be inactive, sleep furiously = to fail to overcome inactivity and helplessness. And voila, you get a pretty starightforward statement about how people don't try hard enough to battle global warming and stuff.
>If the sentence is so important please explain why the words "colorless green" were irreplaceable
It's not inherently important, you could easily replace it with anything else that doesn't seem to be making any sense, but since this sentence in particular was the one that Chomsky actually used, it also naturally became the one to be a symbol of his line of thought. It wasn't supposed to be complex or eye-opening, just a mere illustration of his point.

No.543073

>>543066
Oh so not only is it poorly written but some random person on the internet can refute it this sentence is really great

No.543108

File: 1627240939390.gif (407.19 KB, 535x480, 1357695232276.gif)

>>543073
Jesus I just don't fucking get what you think exactly makes it ``poorly written". It doesn't hold any major significance on its own, at this point it's more of an allusion to Chomsky's work, and before that it had been but a simple illustration. Just get over it already. I don't even know why I'm arguing with you.

No.543109

File: 1627241382153.jpg (125.53 KB, 516x302, 1448788391585.jpg)

wish i could have gotten a cute chomsky cunning linguist _f in college sigh wasted my youth

No.543111

>>543108
I already explained it in simple terms. Maybe if language isn't your strong suit you shouldn't bring it up in the first place

No.543113

>>543111
And I have already told you that it doesn't fucking matter. The simplicity of that contradiction was precisely what he was aiming for. What now?

No.543120

>>543113
I never said it should be complex. Your move

No.543143

>>543120
Does it puncuate the point? It sure does. Is it kept effortless and simple? It is. Then what are you getting into a fuss over, exactly?

No.543144

>>543143
Uh it doesn't "punctuate" it unless grammar is meaning which is something you believe not me.

No.543145

I said putuate not punctuate. God, you retard…

No.543147

>>543144
Are you familiar with the context? Chomsky uses that sentence and its grammatically incorrect version to show how both presumably don't make sense, despite one of them being grammatically correct. So yes, it does punctuate the point.

No.543151

>>543143
It's not effortless at all. No one effortlessly resorts to describing a thing as thing-less

No.543152

>>543151
>Ideas to come up with a nonsensical sentence… Ideas… Green ideas… Heck yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all!!! But what if I said they were also colorless? Please stick it in me, I'll blow up science with this one

That's what he wrote in his autobiography.

No.543153

>>543152
You should write an autobiography as well and tell us what his cum tastes like

No.543155

>>543153
>Colorless white essence runs statically

That's what your mom wrote in her autobiography.

No.543156

>>543155
HOLY FUCKKKKKKKKK

No.563261

You probably didn't know that but vader is a Dutch word for father.

No.563267

like the meme where you translate a sentence word by word then pretend the language is incomprehensible


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